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View Full Version : *** nmrrc 2015 class regulations have been updated & published ***



baddad
03-02-2015, 11:04 PM
The regulations for all classes have been updated on the website. If you need clarification on any point please contact the following:

Pitbikes or Gearbox Bikes = Alan Lord

Mini Motos = Adrian / Martin Arnold.

Winter series championship table is currently being updated and finalised and trophies will be presented at Rnd 1 of the summer series on 8th March, 2015.

http://www.nmrrc.co.uk/#!facilities/c66t

kwaker
04-02-2015, 09:11 AM
The Junior rules look good.
Are you getting the different size restrictors made? If you are be aware the exhaust bolt pitch is different for CS Racing compared to BZM/Polini, so you might need two different ones or slots instead of holes.
Also the Junior regs don't say a maximum 40cc, is this deliberate?

kwaker
04-02-2015, 12:57 PM
Will Junior production be run in a separate race to the Junior 4.2 classes ?

william
04-02-2015, 01:16 PM
In the senior mini moto open class, is it intentional that there is no longer a limitation on the carb size(s)?

baddad
04-02-2015, 02:32 PM
The junior production class will run separate from the 4.2s yes - well as long as there's enough entries to run a class but expect there will be.

With the other questions I'll have to Let Ady and Martin answer those as I'm out of my depth on the Minimotos I'm afraid :)

william
04-02-2015, 04:05 PM
In the new Senior mini moto open class, will any air-cooled or water-cooled engine with a capacity over 40cc but below 50cc be classified as a super? I ask because there may be a cheap route into this new super class if we buy a gold or red crankshaft for our BZM.
Is porting/tuning allowed in the senior open class?

Bullit
04-02-2015, 06:08 PM
Any idea why the conversation on facebook got deleted without any proper answers?

baddad
04-02-2015, 06:48 PM
No which post? I didn't delete anything ? Where was it?

rizla b2
04-02-2015, 07:04 PM
Come on mate keep up ..lol and I never started it .lol..

baddad
04-02-2015, 07:17 PM
Sorry I'm lost obviously not on the NMRRC page then ?

Skefs
04-02-2015, 08:25 PM
What's a modification part? Sorry for being stupid! :( and surely if it exceeds 40cc it will be classed as a super?!? Little vague really!?

Skefs
06-02-2015, 12:06 PM
What happened on stupid book then (facebook)? Want to nosey! And again what's a modification part?! And air cooled running with water cooled?! Will be good to see and hope some peeps run supers

Bullit
06-02-2015, 01:58 PM
Basically Scotty asked a question pretty much the same as yours regarding modification parts and then lots of ifs, buts and maybes came up.

Technically a race crank is a modification if your engine didn't originally come with it, just one of many examples. Big grey area surrounding that word.

Skefs
06-02-2015, 02:20 PM
Ah right cheers dan ;) is a little vague the whole no modification parts allowed? But I am sure someone will be able to say for definate soon............hopefully! I can't understand why a race crank wouldn't be allowed as you can buy it over the counter pretty much every part you can, unless it means you have to use said items as bought without modifying them? Then again your allowed to port and polish cases barrels etc so surely that would be a modified part? Even though your allowed to port and polish!?!? I am confused!

jibberwobble
06-02-2015, 05:21 PM
LOL Think I need to go and read these rules cos I'm well lost after reading that lot! FB doesnt help much with things like this once its all drifted off into never never land.

Skefs
06-02-2015, 06:16 PM
I know jase nightmare!! I am going to go by last years rules and see how I get on! And not sure about the "open class" I mean a IAME proddie would surely be out of any a/c motors league yet they will be racing each other?!? Is quite bizarre but what do I know, hopefully it will work I am just looking forward to racing again ;)

The Websters
06-02-2015, 06:16 PM
Ah right cheers dan ;) is a little vague the whole no modification parts allowed? But I am sure someone will be able to say for definate soon............hopefully! I can't understand why a race crank wouldn't be allowed as you can buy it over the counter pretty much every part you can, unless it means you have to use said items as bought without modifying them? Then again your allowed to port and polish cases barrels etc so surely that would be a modified part? Even though your allowed to port and polish!?!? I am confused!
Jamie just stick it all in like I do if you don't get caught happy days:twitchy:

Bullit
06-02-2015, 06:34 PM
You can run a race crank Skefs I was just giving an example of how grey the word modified is. It was actually a discussion regarding vforce reed block and the fact it fits straight into a Blata motor but cases have to be modded on a bzm so it's a no no but you can mod the 620 cases into gold cases and that's ok? :~ my head hurts with all these loop holes

It was a very long post with LOTS of comments that had lots of unanswered points.

Bullit
06-02-2015, 06:37 PM
Jamie just stick it all in like I do if you don't get caught happy days:twitchy:


Lol, brilliant 👍
Even if I had all the modified parts available I still wouldn't make the top three so wouldn't need to worry about scrutineering lol

Skefs
06-02-2015, 07:03 PM
So what are the rules then?!?!? Jesus and indeed Christ this is going to be a hectic year!!! And I have a air filter I had to modify to fit so is my engine now illegal? And if someone modifys a fuel filter to fit would that make the engine illegal also surely this needs clearing up ASAP???

jibberwobble
06-02-2015, 07:41 PM
I'm not going to get to involved as I'm unlikely to be able to do many/any rounds in this series but most of that seems to be pretty confusing. There is no way on earth someone starting out in racing is going to be able to decipher those rules. On that note what I'm writing here is to request clarification for the masses which will in turn undoubtedly mean you guys have far less squabbling at your meetings.

I dont get why the need to write the same thing in different ways for different classes? Just say 15mm max carb and be done with it.

Juniors can run 'super' pipes on their proddies but senior a/c can only run a proddy pipe, proddy pipe needs defining, there are tons of similar pipes that look the same until measured, maybe specify a max belly dimension? #over the counter isnt really needed, no one is going to be able to calculate and accurately fabricate a better pipe than a manufacturer pipe anyway. Expansion pipes are a mind blowingly complicated thing to get right.

Any engine with 3,5,6 ports? Thats all the engines on the market then so it doesnt even need saying.

Please define 'super'

Please define '40cc production'

An open class with supers but 'no modification parts' errrrr!!

'Polishing and porting allowed only on your engine' so I'm not allowed to polish n port my mates engine then? Or should that be 'polishing and porting permitted but no other modifications'? In which case I must be missing something as thats about the only modification you can do to a MM engine anyway bar installing a different reed block.

Standard reed block with no modification. Does that mean you cannot modify a reed block or does that mean that you cannot modify an engine to accept a different reed block (a reed block that hasnt been altered from it's factory state) i.e. Iames can come with a tassinari kart engine block from factory but you have to open the cases slightly to fit this same block into a BZM or Polini.

Continuing to allow series 1 polini's to run unrestricted is a very sensible idea, something FAB need to get a grip of too. Seems like that may be the only class where older equipment is viable now. Nothing wrong with that if you dont mind eliminating some 'just doing it for a giggle' riders.

Again this is not an intended attack, just (hopefully) constructive criticism and aimed at people who are much more likely to want to get things right and cater for the needs of their customers than other operators.


Any engine with 3 or 5 or 6 port motor.Any engine with 3 or 5 or 6 port motor.

jibberwobble
06-02-2015, 07:46 PM
So what are the rules then?!?!? Jesus and indeed Christ this is going to be a hectic year!!! And I have a air filter I had to modify to fit so is my engine now illegal? And if someone modifys a fuel filter to fit would that make the engine illegal also surely this needs clearing up ASAP???

It needs re-writing from start mate.

jibberwobble
06-02-2015, 07:49 PM
Jamie just stick it all in like I do if you don't get caught happy days:twitchy:

You can even run Avgas without breaking any rules Les whoopp whoop

Skefs
06-02-2015, 07:54 PM
Totally agree Jase I mean I'm not doing every round probably just the whilton mill ones as I have ALOT going on at the moment, but as you said this really does need clarifying and, also, as you said this isn't an attack! If a lot of riders fall off and I manage to place a good position ;) I wouldn't want to get disqualified as I didn't understand the rules properly, then again first round isn't too far off and they have already published some regs so will they change or??!

Bullit
06-02-2015, 08:25 PM
Skefs, Jase, I'm glad it's not just me

Skefs
06-02-2015, 08:37 PM
Skefs, Jase, I'm glad it's not just me

Hahaha glad it's more than just a few as well I was starting to worry for a bit there! But seriously what is going on!? It will get to the point where someone will be hacked off because someone else's potentially illegal (although no-one really knows what illegal engines are at the moment) engine will be stripped and no one will really know what's allowed or what's not and it's just going to cause all sorts of upsets, anyway I am done trying to get a definate answer, grab me the popcorn and stick a fork in me I'm done :)

rizla b2
06-02-2015, 10:24 PM
Just sell the bzm polini and iame and buy a ultima and your sorted haaaaaa lol...go blata lol...

HugheskiRacing
06-02-2015, 10:25 PM
I can write the aircooled regs in less than 2 mins not 3 months

Any a/c motor not exceeding 40cc max carb size 15mm any pipe you like DONE

I'd like to know when all these checks will be carried out when the raceday is so busy???

The more rules you lay down the more work you make for yourself to police it.

rizla b2
06-02-2015, 10:27 PM
Scott have your cases been modified ......reed area lol...for your v force..lol

HugheskiRacing
06-02-2015, 10:35 PM
1 motor out of 3 has funny thing is when I changed to a standard motor half way through last year I was more competitive nearer the front.

jibberwobble
07-02-2015, 12:32 AM
Technically a race crank is a modification if your engine didn't originally come with it, just one of many examples. Big grey area surrounding that word.

The whole modification bit is the only thing wrong with these rules imho. The rest of it just needs writing correctly and clearly. As far as I can see not allowing engine development only stops the people with lesser equipment bringing them up to spec and ending up with a unit 'nearly' as quick as the latest off the shelf racing engines which are themselves so fast that its debatable that 99% of people could improve on anyway. Call it 'open' for all adult classes at least, the field will be closer with the gap between those that have and those that havent being much less noticeable. Then do as Hugheski says and simply have a max 40.00cc/50.00cc limit + max 15mm carb for all 40cc motors. The most you'd ever have to do is take the head off and measure a carb.

Fuel:

No race fuels means I can run High octane Avgas (standard for hairy planes) or maybe even a methanol/nitro methane mix which is actually bog standard fuel you can buy over the counter in a toy shop for model aeroplane engines.

That can be fixed by changing to 'Petrol forecourt pump fuel only. No additives'.

rizla b2
07-02-2015, 06:30 AM
I'm all for run what ya brung ...bit of black country ....for ya. Me ol cocka

kwaker
07-02-2015, 01:04 PM
Not a lot of replies from the organizers to this thread...:(

Ady Arnold
07-02-2015, 05:33 PM
Sorry for not replying sooner There is ment to be a new engine coming soon which is the only one in the country
which has been made up on just modified parts mate
which is why we put no modified parts ore a one off part that no one can buy thank you

kwaker
07-02-2015, 05:54 PM
Hi Ady,

The junior rules don't state a maximum cc....
Should it be 40cc maximum?
Or are we allowed supers with restrictors....:p

Ady Arnold
07-02-2015, 06:25 PM
thank you will get on that

Ady Arnold
07-02-2015, 06:42 PM
modified means no part that no one else can buy over the counter
i thank you for all the points and have put then into the rule which will be up shortly

Ady Arnold
07-02-2015, 06:59 PM
new rules will be up tonight or tomorrow thank you

william
07-02-2015, 08:25 PM
Presently, there appears to be a shortage of BZM cylinders and pistons. We have therefore built a hybrid engine for the 2015 season which has BZM crankcases, pull-start, ignition and clutch, plus an Iame crankshaft, cylinder, head and piston. ALL of these parts can EASILY be purchased by anyone from several UK mini moto dealers. Also the hybrid engine can be bought fully assembled, from Minimoto Racing. Is this engine legal for 2015?

Bullit
07-02-2015, 09:38 PM
If you go by the definition in post #37 then I'd say it has to be.

kwaker
07-02-2015, 09:48 PM
Presently, there appears to be a shortage of BZM cylinders and pistons. We have therefore built a hybrid engine for the 2015 season which has BZM crankcases, pull-start, ignition and clutch, plus an Iame crankshaft, cylinder, head and piston. ALL of these parts can EASILY be purchased by anyone from several UK mini moto dealers. Also the hybrid engine can be bought fully assembled, from Minimoto Racing. Is this engine legal for 2015?


I put a post earlier with an ebay link on this forum for BZM pistons, they are available from Italy.

rizla b2
07-02-2015, 10:00 PM
Presently, there appears to be a shortage of BZM cylinders and pistons. We have therefore built a hybrid engine for the 2015 season which has BZM crankcases, pull-start, ignition and clutch, plus an Iame crankshaft, cylinder, head and piston. ALL of these parts can EASILY be purchased by anyone from several UK mini moto dealers. Also the hybrid engine can be bought fully assembled, from Minimoto Racing. Is this engine legal for 2015?

Iame crankjs in iame engines only ..unless thy changed it ..

kwaker
07-02-2015, 11:07 PM
CS Racing ( IAME ) do cranks with different strokes, they do a 39.2mm which I think is the same as BZM/Polini 40cc, and 39.4mm for the CS Racing 40cc .
So you can use a 39.2mm CS racing crank to replace a BZM one.
So peeps better not cheat!
Scrutineering could easily measure the crank stroke through the spark plug hole I would have thought.

rizla b2
08-02-2015, 07:19 AM
Presently, there appears to be a shortage of BZM cylinders and pistons. We have therefore built a hybrid engine for the 2015 season which has BZM crankcases, pull-start, ignition and clutch, plus an Iame crankshaft, cylinder, head and piston. ALL of these parts can EASILY be purchased by anyone from several UK mini moto dealers. Also the hybrid engine can be bought fully assembled, from Minimoto Racing. Is this engine legal for 2015? engines fine will you just need to slow down lol..����������

Ady Arnold
08-02-2015, 07:44 AM
Rules are now up on www.nmrrc.co.uk
thank you

kwaker
08-02-2015, 08:07 AM
Thanks Ady for the work you are putting into this.

Sorry but just another question for the junior production, is there any chance it could be made "open" so that any 40cc air cooled engine could run as well as water cooled still with max. carb size 15mm?
This allows kids to try out the higher power of an un-restricted air cooled engine, they can do this just by taking out the restrictor and re-jetting rather than have to buy a whole new water cooled engine and set up.

This just makes a lower cost route to moving up the classes and will help keep minimotos alive, my eldest did this at the end of last season and we found it a good stepping stone without having to spend any more money.

Sorry should have thought about this earlier:(

simsimmer
08-02-2015, 08:38 AM
Hi,in the senior open class can you use ported cylinders and cases? It says no modification parts but alot of the watercooleds would of had work especially the supers?

Cheers Simon

Bullit
08-02-2015, 09:49 AM
Hi,in the senior open class can you use ported cylinders and cases? It says no modification parts but alot of the watercooleds would of had work especially the supers?

Cheers Simon

I would have thought that 'open' wouldn't have any restrictions other than CC ??

simsimmer
08-02-2015, 11:12 AM
I would have thought that 'open' wouldn't have any restrictions other than CC ??

Hi,best to be sure.:)

Cheers Simon

Ady Arnold
08-02-2015, 11:43 AM
Hi,in the senior open class can you use ported cylinders and cases? It says no modification parts but alot of the watercooleds would of had work especially the supers?

Cheers Simon

no modified parts that no one can buy over the counter ie a one off part that no one can buy

Ady Arnold
08-02-2015, 11:46 AM
Thanks Ady for the work you are putting into this.

Sorry but just another question for the junior production, is there any chance it could be made "open" so that any 40cc air cooled engine could run as well as water cooled still with max. carb size 15mm?
This allows kids to try out the higher power of an un-restricted air cooled engine, they can do this just by taking out the restrictor and re-jetting rather than have to buy a whole new water cooled engine and set up.

This just makes a lower cost route to moving up the classes and will help keep minimotos alive, my eldest did this at the end of last season and we found it a good stepping stone without having to spend any more money.

Sorry should have thought about this earlier:(


that would be fine mate you will be able to ride it in the proddys

simsimmer
08-02-2015, 12:29 PM
Is that a yes or no? My cases and cylinders for example are BZM but aftermarket ported etc..

Cheers Simon

Ady Arnold
08-02-2015, 01:25 PM
Is that a yes or no? My cases and cylinders for example are BZM but aftermarket ported etc..

Cheers Simon

It is a yes mate you are fine

rizla b2
08-02-2015, 03:29 PM
Why would you want to run a std A/C or water cooled engine / bike in the open class with supers..surely you'd enter in the correct class.or if you have a A/C water cooled with modified reed blocks or you want to use a bigger carb .then I could see the point in entering the A/C water cooled bikes/engine in a supers class ...

Bullit
08-02-2015, 03:45 PM
Is that a yes or no? My cases and cylinders for example are BZM but aftermarket ported etc..

Cheers Simon

So you can run modified cases but only if they're not modified to take a different reed block. So the whole modified thing is thrown out the window right there surely????

HugheskiRacing
08-02-2015, 04:28 PM
Not aloud to machine or modify a motor for maybe a tenth of a second a lap if you're lucky but you can give your opponent a 30kgs advantage in the same weight category racing against 14 year olds!! Only in minimotos.

It could all be one class looking at the number of registered riders riding all sorts...that'll be great to follow on TV

Archiedog
08-02-2015, 05:09 PM
Why on earth was is tampered with. For two years the grids have been healthy and the majority of people had fun. Huge Jet Ski got it spot on really. Air cooled, 40cc max, 15mm max carb, forecourt fuel only. Any part becomes a 'modified' part once you have taken a file too it. For example, Will Howarths hybrid engine is built from bits you can buy over the counter, if the cases need a tweak to except the barrel then so be it. If people are allowed to 'polish and port' then the removal of some metal anywhere in the engine is fair game and that includes the reed block. Making the regs more restrictive has no benefit as most people are running the engines they did last year which may well become illegal due to bolted on rules. Development is fun in my opinion. Part of the game. There is only so far you can go anyway. Cost is irrelevant as some people run two or three bikes, some people buy the lastest expensive frames, some people could spend a fortune on tyre, some people could pay to practice evey week so trying to make cost effective for people or cheap isn't really going to happen. You shouldn't curtail engine development and then allow people to spend thousands elsewhere? The series works because it's simple. Keep the regs simple, let people do as they please as long as you keep to the basic structure and it will encourage more people to race. Making the rules difficult to understand will only reduce numbers.

Oh, and a final point ;) 14 years old ain't really senior.

mark77
08-02-2015, 06:31 PM
I feel sorry for bill and will, they've spent a fair wedge on getting their hybrid running well, this sort of development could benifit all of us in time, the weight split I can understand but the rest is a bit crazy.

Tracey
08-02-2015, 07:51 PM
Sorry you feel this way but we have been working 7 days a week !! We will put replies up when we can.

rizla b2
08-02-2015, 07:57 PM
Not aloud to machine or modify a motor for maybe a tenth of a second a lap if you're lucky but you can give your opponent a 30kgs advantage in the same weight category racing against 14 year olds!! Only in minimotos.

It could all be one class looking at the number of registered riders riding all sorts...that'll be great to follow on TV not many registered looking at it..in minimotos.

rizla b2
08-02-2015, 08:33 PM
Not aloud to machine or modify a motor for maybe a tenth of a second a lap if you're lucky but you can give your opponent a 30kgs advantage in the same weight category racing against 14 year olds!! Only in minimotos.

It could all be one class looking at the number of registered riders riding all sorts...that'll be great to follow on TV

Brandons in lights Scott lol..you just can't get away from the blata Paynes lol...

HugheskiRacing
08-02-2015, 08:54 PM
At 83kgs I'll be f*****g up the heavies championship I know who my friends are :) I'm open to bribes aswell

Bullit
08-02-2015, 09:17 PM
At 83kgs I'll be f*****g up the heavies championship I know who my friends are :) I'm open to bribes aswell

I wish I could keep up with you for you to **** up my race lol.

kwaker
08-02-2015, 10:32 PM
Has the 14mm restrictor been removed from the Junior Expert Class now?
I'm sure when the rules were first posted it was 12mm for under 35kgs and 14mm for 35kgs and above...

Was this a deliberate change or a copy and paste mistake?
I thought the idea was to try to bring the power/weight ratios at bit closer together..

Archiedog
09-02-2015, 07:40 AM
I assume Ady that the vforce reed blocks are not allowed in Blatas either then as they are a non standard part?

Skefs
09-02-2015, 08:13 AM
I'm guessing if you don't have to modify the inlet for them to fit then it's an over the counter part so ok?! It is a little strange though as IAME and blata can run the v force but your not allowed to modify an older engine to take them so then everyone can run v force rather than just the select few engines but I did say I would shut up a while ago :)

william
09-02-2015, 11:08 AM
Everyone can order from Mini Moto Racing at Hully, a brand new Iame/BZM hybrid engine, or anyone can easily buy the parts from dealers, and assemble one themselves. Obviously, none of the parts are special one-offs. The engine is under 40cc, so of course it is perfectly legal in FAB and NMRRC, plus virtually all championships throughout the rest of the world for that matter. Upgrading of older engines and chassis components is an essential part of this sport, and of course the NMRRC organisers realise that most people cannot afford to buy the very latest kit year after year after year. It appears as though, brand new Iame/CS Racing engines are presently producing race-winning performance, and a few racers have moved to this engine. An Iame/CS Racing engine it too expensive for some competitors, and many of their BZM engines are becoming worn out. It makes perfect economical sense to fit an Iame top-end onto your BZM bottom end and remain competitive. Scotty can do the work for you. The NMRRC organisers want to fill the senior mini moto grids, and of course they want everyone to have the possibility of using the latest, over-the-counter products. Obviously, there will sometimes be some "modification" to join old and new parts. Iame power should not be exclusively available to competitors who are able to afford the whole Iame engine. Perhaps it is even possible to push an Iame steel cylinder sleeve (with a little "modification") inside an older (BZM or Polini) cylinder to achieve Iame porting. There are endless combinations of over-the-counter parts which could help the older engines remain competitive, and this is a good thing for the sport. It does make sense to ban one-off, EXCLUSIVE engine parts but in reality is it really probable that anyone will make their own crankshaft, cylinder, piston, head etc? I find it difficult to imagine any significant performance enhancing part which could appear inside someone's old engine, to out-perform the Iame engines. There is a new prototype BRITISH engine which needs to raced SOMEWHERE for a season, prior to going into production. This engine must be welcomed by FAB and the NMRRC, otherwise we may all be obliged to buy Italian-made mini moto engines forever. Perhaps the rules should clearly state that ALL prototypes and one-offs are welcome to compete in the super 50 class, regardless of being under 40cc or under 50cc?

Bullit
09-02-2015, 01:06 PM
Well said Will :)

Skefs
09-02-2015, 01:30 PM
So could I fit an IAME bottom end to a bzm top end?! Or is that not allowed?! It is bloody confusing!

jibberwobble
09-02-2015, 05:54 PM
If you go by the definition in post #37 then I'd say it has to be.

And does this also mean you cant do a similar modification to to your own engine or buy a second hand engine with owner mods (because this cant be bought over the counter)?

What I'm getting at is........ Is home tuning/modifying allowed?

Ripper012
09-02-2015, 06:01 PM
Just looked at the regs, why are they letting 14+ into the senior minimoto class?
If I don't make the 85kg heavy class I will potentially be racing against 14 year olds. Iam 45 this year and considerably heavier than a child, it just doesn't make sense.

Bullit
09-02-2015, 06:25 PM
Perhaps they want all the seniors to move over to the senior open class? Which isn't an 'open' class as its got the same regs as the normal aircooled class??
I think the open class should have a CC limit then other than that if you can build it you can race it :)

rizla b2
09-02-2015, 06:32 PM
I assume Ady that the vforce reed blocks are not allowed in Blatas either then as they are a non standard part?http://www.minimoto.co.uk/acatalog/016.009.png if can be bought over the counter from a blata dealer and no modifications are necessary to fit them its OK ...or you have to ban bzm race cranks 6 port barrels and the list GOS on if you get my drift as long as it can be bought over the counter and no machining is done its legal..

rizla b2
09-02-2015, 06:38 PM
Perhaps they want all the seniors to move over to the senior open class? Which isn't an 'open' class as its got the same regs as the normal aircooled class??
I think the open class should have a CC limit then other than that if you can build it you can race it :)

That's what I was on about ...makes sence to me

The Websters
09-02-2015, 07:02 PM
This is all getting a bit silly really should have just left it same as last year:twitchy:

Archiedog
09-02-2015, 07:09 PM
I do get your point mate. Thing is, with so many different types of engines available and tuning allowed is there an argument for open air cooled. Do what you like to them as long as they are 40 cc max with a 15mm carb? Less confusion or interpretation of the rules.

Skefs
09-02-2015, 07:10 PM
Even the open class is a little silly, I mean air-cooled racing against proddie........yeah not much different just a couple of thousand revs and extra torque if your on a proddie especially an IAME proddie and you can fit a big carb to it as well I know what I would be running in that class lol and yes les agree and I am totally lost!

Skefs
09-02-2015, 07:11 PM
I do get your point mate. Thing is, with so many different types of engines available and tuning allowed is there an argument for open air cooled. Do what you like to them as long as they are 40 cc max with a 15mm carb? Less confusion or interpretation of the rules.

And totally agree it should be max 40cc and 15mm carb job done but I can say for one thing it's going to intresting none the less haha!

Ady Arnold
09-02-2015, 07:23 PM
just to clear this up in rules modification means. parts brought over the counter means bzm parts to fit bzm engines and iame parts to fit iame engines and polini parts to fit polini engines.

the odd filing and polish and porting is allowed on standard parts

if you want to mix and mach these parts to make hybrid engines it is taking modifying to another level.
yes it is good for the sport to see engine development but it is not affordable to every one so these engines will run the the porduction class untill there is more of them

Ady Arnold
09-02-2015, 07:26 PM
Has the 14mm restrictor been removed from the Junior Expert Class now?
I'm sure when the rules were first posted it was 12mm for under 35kgs and 14mm for 35kgs and above...

Was this a deliberate change or a copy and paste mistake?
I thought the idea was to try to bring the power/weight ratios at bit closer together..

sorry it is a copy and past mistake and will be put right soon thank you for seeing it

Archiedog
09-02-2015, 07:28 PM
Hope no one had a bzm silver crank in their series two then. ;)

Ady Arnold
09-02-2015, 07:28 PM
the rules have been the same for the last 2 years the only thing has changed is the weight split and you all voted on that

HugheskiRacing
09-02-2015, 07:32 PM
What's the difference between an Iame/BZM hybrid & a series 2 polini bottom end with a BZM barrel fitted?

Is that not the same?

Archiedog
09-02-2015, 07:42 PM
Aye, sorry Ade. Overstepped the mark.

Ripper012
09-02-2015, 08:06 PM
Regarding the weight split, who decided on 85kgs ??.

Archiedog
09-02-2015, 08:09 PM
Finally point from me though, if it's a riders championship then I vote to allow Wills bike in it. It could be a cheap way for lots of riders to upspec their bikes and it would be a massive shame for the current ac champion not to be allowed in.

Night all x

HugheskiRacing
09-02-2015, 08:12 PM
Regarding the weight split, who decided on 85kgs ??.

Somebody who weighs 85.1 :)

Back in 2006 we had 4 weight splits.

Lights-middleweights-heavies would've got my vote

william
09-02-2015, 08:29 PM
Allan explained previously there were insufficient entrants in the senior water-cooled class in the latter meetings of 2014 to justify running a separate race for this class in 2015 UNLESS there are more entrants in 2015. A positive attempt at filling the grid, is to encourage the over-14 year olds to have a go in the senior water-cooled class. Obviously some (but not all) of those juniors will be lightweight; hence the benefit of the weight split. Equally, the introduction of the Super 50's on the same grid should increase the grid size. In addition, welcoming racers with air-cooled bikes into the senior water-cooled class should also boost numbers. If none of these positive changes increase the numbers on the water-cooled grids, the water-cooled races will have to be run in the air-cooled races. If these attempts at filling the senior water-cooled grids fail, the senior mini moto racers could lose the possibility of competing in TWO separate classes.

Bullit
09-02-2015, 08:44 PM
Finally point from me though, if it's a riders championship then I vote to allow Wills bike in it. It could be a cheap way for lots of riders to upspec their bikes and it would be a massive shame for the current ac champion not to be allowed in.

Night all x

If this was facebook Dom I'd be hitting the "like" button

Ady Arnold
09-02-2015, 09:14 PM
we put it that high to encourage more heavy weight to come back into to the sport

jibberwobble
09-02-2015, 09:31 PM
just to clear this up in rules modification means. parts brought over the counter means bzm parts to fit bzm engines and iame parts to fit iame engines and polini parts to fit polini engines.

the odd filing and polish and porting is allowed on standard parts

if you want to mix and mach these parts to make hybrid engines it is taking modifying to another level.
yes it is good for the sport to see engine development but it is not affordable to every one so these engines will run the the porduction class untill there is more of them


Hope no one had a bzm silver crank in their series two then. ;)


What's the difference between an Iame/BZM hybrid & a series 2 polini bottom end with a BZM barrel fitted?

Is that not the same?

In many cases hybrids make racing cheaper/possible, a machined series 2 polini bottom end with bzm or Malossi barrel (we've been doing it for years), old kit these days and wont be beating the latest stuff but set up right will still be quick. Legal or not? and yes, whats the difference between this and Wills hybrid?

'The odd bit of filing and porting'. There needs to be a clear line surely! I can do the same work with a file or a mill or a dremel, just one takes longer than the other two. You could also sand out 1mm all the way round an exhaust port and say you'd polished it a lot.

HugheskiRacing
09-02-2015, 09:37 PM
we put it that high to encourage more heavy weight to come back into to the sport

But where are they mate? I don't see them registering or any supers in the current list

Ady Arnold
09-02-2015, 09:45 PM
We will just have to wait and see scott

william
09-02-2015, 11:04 PM
How can anyone know IN ADVANCE what is now legal and what is now illegal? Virtually EVERYONE is presently racing some sort of modified hybrid engine. Even the Iame engines have already been altered to include Polini crank seals and BZM bearings. Some Iame engines now have Zocchi clutches and BZM drums, some with Hugheski relines, and some with Polini springs etc etc. One Iame ran a SHA carb. Polini cases with BZM cranks and top-ends have been run for years without causing a stir. Cranks have been rebuilt with different conrod kits for years. The parts from one engine are meant to be interchangeable with the parts from other engines. Lots of racers have altered their early BZM cases to gold spec, and the work was far, far more extensive than the work required to fit an Iame top-end onto BZM crankcases. To promote price competition and keep costs down, the engine parts were designed to be interchangeable, and this is of enormous benefit to everyone but especially to those people racing on a tight budget. Jibberwobble explains it perfectly; No two people could ever be expected to agree exactly where the limit at which a little porting and polishing becomes illegal. Equally, no two people could agree on what constitutes a minor modification, or a major modification. I am beginning to think that I now prefer the rules from last year; maximum 15 mm carb, no red or gold cranks, 40cc maximum, no vforce reeds (I think), only over-the-counter exhaust, forecourt petrol, everything else is legal, no worries, go race within the friendly atmosphere at the NMRRC meetings and have lots of fun!

rizla b2
10-02-2015, 12:16 AM
I do get your point mate. Thing is, with so many different types of engines available and tuning allowed is there an argument for open air cooled. Do what you like to them as long as they are 40 cc max with a 15mm carb? Less confusion or interpretation of the rules.
And that's how it should be.bang on the money..

Ady Arnold
10-02-2015, 07:54 AM
Just read the rules again and it does state that 40cc max and 15mm carb which it has been for the last 2 years

Skefs
10-02-2015, 09:24 AM
I think they mean that should be the only restriction ady, anything goes apart from exceeding max 40cc and a 15mm carb. I think we should all have an open mind and see how it goes first and if needed change for next year?!

Bullit
10-02-2015, 10:24 AM
Just read the rules again and it does state that 40cc max and 15mm carb which it has been for the last 2 years

As Skefs said people aren't questioning the 40cc and 15mm carb. But they are questioning the modified part. You said in an earlier post Polini parts on a Polini engine etc... So that means you'll have a couple of front runners with the money to buy an IAME, a few at the back who can only afford a Polini and then the mid pack running bzm. So if you can put other stuff on your engine the only way to go faster is to lay out 1500 for an IAME.

This is meant to be a reasonably prices riders championship and it doesn't seem to be rider orientated but money driven

HugheskiRacing
10-02-2015, 01:31 PM
Maybe the hybrid is quicker ;)

Whatever you got you still got twist the throttle & do the lap times your not instantly gonna be a front runner cause you've done a bit of filing if you were 20th last year

william
10-02-2015, 03:04 PM
Is there anyone using this forum who likes the recently proposed new rule regarding "no modification parts" for senior mini motos? If there is anyone out there who feels that it is a good idea, I think it would be helpful if he/she made an appearance. Perhaps someone could explain exactly how the proposed new rule is expected to benefit the NMRRC and/or the existing senior mini moto racers.

Skefs
10-02-2015, 03:22 PM
Not sure what the point would be to be honest, I very much doubt that they will change the rules now. However I can totally understand your frustration as you have made, what sounds to be a really competitive and cheap engine, and as I remember you were even kind enough to say how you done it and what parts you used, and for that we should all be appreciate it. BUT like I said not sure what the point is trying to raise views anymore, I suggest you speak to the people who made the rules instead of maybe causing any more up roar, and please don't take offence this is just my suggestion take it or leave it :)

Archiedog
10-02-2015, 04:15 PM
I'm not sure anyone is intentionally wanting to cause uproar but a discussion is important as far as the rules go. Left as it is could wipe out half the grid.

Skefs
10-02-2015, 04:48 PM
Like I said I doubt they will change it now with only 4 weeks to go? I hope they do but it's not up to me, I just didn't want ady to get bombarded with "you should do this" an "you need to do that" as he is a top bloke an it's not fair but like you say it does need discussing, and not sure what I'm getting at so will shut up again for a while ;)

HugheskiRacing
10-02-2015, 05:06 PM
If this is a riders championship why can't we vote on it?

Archiedog
10-02-2015, 05:44 PM
Everybody knows Ady is a top bloke Skeffs, that is absolutely without question. Ady is just unfortunately in a position to answer the questions. Maybe there should be a small group of riders that take on everybody's ideas and come up with the regs. This saves one person having to deal with all the flack although that's a discussion for another thread.

Skefs
10-02-2015, 05:50 PM
I thought if you raced so many races last year you had a say anyway? Although I didn't as had other commitments so can't comment, but thought this was the case and I totally understand archiedog hope this is all resolved soon :)

Tracey
10-02-2015, 08:10 PM
But where are they mate? I don't see them registering or any supers in the current list

Maybe they should start registering to make sure there is a place on the grids for them, as there is plenty of pit bikes out there to take the minimoto places !!!

Tracey
10-02-2015, 08:14 PM
Skefs Why do the rules concern you so much when you don't even race with anybody??????

Archiedog
10-02-2015, 08:16 PM
Maybe they should start registering to make sure there is a place on the grids for them, as there is plenty of pit bikes out there to take the minimoto places !!!

?? Best make it a pitbike championship then!

Skefs
10-02-2015, 08:20 PM
Skefs Why do the rules concern you so much when you don't even race with anybody??????

Wow what a great way to throw your toys out the cot!! I was planning on racing this year so it does concern me actually!!! If I am going to be a paying racer I do have a right to speak and further more as a paying member on here I can comment on anything I choose fit!! Great way of trying to get new people into the sport! And if you want the pitbikes to race instead just say and we can all go to fab!!!

Skefs
10-02-2015, 08:38 PM
And for your information as you have upset me now! I was there when the NMRRC was first starting as a winter series freezing my nuts off but racing! And I competed not last season but the season before!! I take it you ride a pitbike?! And are you an organiser then or just a fan boy!!!

HugheskiRacing
10-02-2015, 08:42 PM
I'll think you'll find Tracey is Martin Arnold correct me if I'm wrong?

Skefs
10-02-2015, 08:45 PM
.................

kwaker
10-02-2015, 09:49 PM
I think we should all pull together , the organisers of NMRRC, Alan, Ady, Martin etc. do a great job for the sport, and also keep the Tuesday evening practices going at Whilton. There are precious few places to race or practice on minibikes in this country, we should look after what we have.

It is true minimotos are under threat from pitbikes at the moment, so we should all try to make any minimoto racing survive and be fun.
They are great fun after all.

I don't know what the answer to the senior rules debate is, perhaps it should be put to the vote.....?

william
11-02-2015, 07:58 PM
After 114 posts, there hasn't been a single positive response to the new "no modification parts" rule. We all recall that last years rules worked perfectly well, and there were no problems throughout 11 meetings. Since no amount of modifications are likely to dethrone the Iame engine from No 1 spot, I politely propose that the "no modifications" rule should quickly be deleted. Peace will then reign over us all once more.

eat my dust 24
11-02-2015, 08:38 PM
just read through all of this and it does seem to be very confusing

i have always tried to just keep things simple and the same for the a/c senior class

i think it would be easier if the rules just said:

do what ever you want but engine has to be under 40cc
max carb size - 15mm
+ weight splits

that would be easier for everyone

trying to "cap" "limit" or "police" how much tuning is done just opens a can of worms and creates thousands more questions

HugheskiRacing
11-02-2015, 09:31 PM
Alan has been unable to comment on here

There are now some new proposals to vote on the facebook page so nows your chance to tweek things if you want?

https://www.facebook.com/NationalMiniBikeRoadRacingChampionship/posts/780938621981721

Bullit
11-02-2015, 09:35 PM
Alan has been unable to comment on here

There are now some new proposals to vote on the facebook page so nows your chance to tweek things if you want?

https://www.facebook.com/NationalMiniBikeRoadRacingChampionship/posts/780938621981721


You beat me too it

jibberwobble
11-02-2015, 11:06 PM
From FB...............



**** SENIOR MINI MOTO RIDERS ***

All riders that have ridden with us and plan to ride this year please fill in the enclosed form so that we can finalise these senior regs.
I've always believed in allowing people to have a voice in how their class runs. I haven't been able to get on the Mini Moto Scene forum to post this but some of the riders will do it for me i'm sure.

I thought we had got the regs sorted but there seems to be too many inconsistencies. We need to get this sorted and put to bed before this weekend so ill close the voting saturday PM.

Please don't vote if you don't intend to ride this year as thats not fair on the riders that do as you will be influencing their championship.

https://docs.google.com/…/1Hq4cm1BwL-sr34r1MAOrs2X…/viewform (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Hq4cm1BwL-sr34r1MAOrs2XYrKmt0JBRh9aq7LQCNZE/viewform)

foss.2007
12-02-2015, 08:20 PM
Senior open class surely means you can run UPTO A 50cc engine with a 21mm carb, race exhaust, all supplyed by a manufacturer I.E. POLINI ,IAME/ CS RACING, BLATA, BIZETA, ZOCCI, "OR" ENGINE. And any tuning you want to do on the engine . PORTING , SQUISH SETTING , TIMING , JETTING ETC . ALL TUNING PARTS MUST BE AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE AND NO ONE OFF JOBBIES. This in my eyes gives everyone the chance to build the ultimate minimoto race machine using all the parts on the market. And the skill to utilise and ride the thing when done. AND HOPEFULLY BE RELIABLE ENOUGH TO LAST A RACE. IM IN LOL.

davejmag
23-02-2015, 07:23 PM
Anyone know where you can buy the 14,12 and 10mm restrictors for the junior mini moto riders, there is a few riders coming down from Scotland this year and we run 15mm and 12mm up here so some people need to get some 14's and 10's before next weekend.

kwaker
23-02-2015, 08:13 PM
Minimoto Racing had 14mm and 10mm last year for the FAB championship so you could give them a call.
Or try McIntosh as CS racing do different sizes as well, mine came with a 12mm restrictor but they also have 10mm and 15mm listed in their catalogue.

I would have hoped that NMRRC would have got a stock in ready so try Ady or Martin Arnold as well.

davejmag
23-02-2015, 08:22 PM
Tosh only has 15 which we run not the 14, I'll try Mmr tomorrow. Ady is gonna check and get back to us, just thought I'd ask on here too. A couple of us have the 14 from last year but there's a load more coming down this year after we told them how good the racing is and how friendly everyone (well almost ��) is, so they need the 14mm restrictor.

kwaker
23-02-2015, 08:30 PM
Maybe Tosh could ask CS to make some 10mm and 14mm ones....

davejmag
23-02-2015, 08:40 PM
Yeah but wouldn't be here for next week even if they did (which I doubt). CS/Iame supply the 15mm reducer with the 15mm restrictor as that's what they use in Spain/Italy so doubt they'd make 14mm ones for us over here, unfortunately.

kwaker
23-02-2015, 10:20 PM
Could get the 12mm ones then and drill them to 14mm, but it does make you wonder why we didn't just use 15mm....

davejmag
23-02-2015, 10:29 PM
Yeah think if I they can't get 14 then will drill a 12. Yeah I know would have been good if the NMRRC had went with the 15 same as Europe and Scotland :)

baddad
24-02-2015, 11:57 PM
I can now post again but probably will not shed any light on anything or be of any use at all but will try to at least improve on communication where ever possible :)

On the restrictors I'm not sure why it was 14mm to be honest, I know it was discussed at great length but for the life of me cant remember why it was 14mm? must of been a reason though.

Spoke with Martin earlier today and he tells me he has the supply of the various restrictors all in hand.

Next year we will be running to FIM rules for reasons that will soon become evident so I would imagine all the relevant championships will all do the same.

Normal Entry opens for Rnd 1 just after midnight tonight. At the time of writing this we've had 205 entries from registered riders so grids will be pretty full.

Also if you have become a registered rider you will have receive instructions as to how to access the Members Page etc. When the Website is updated at midnight the annual indemnity form will then be available to download, print off, fill in and hand in at your first meeting to get your Personal Tag Huere Transponder. This will be preprogrammed with your Name and Race number ready to use.

kwaker
25-02-2015, 07:29 AM
Do we get the restrictors direct from Martin/Ady or somewhere else?
FIM rules for next year sounds interesting....

baddad
25-02-2015, 07:46 AM
Martin / Ady and also Mini Moto Racing will have them available before the series starts and also trackside

Legs 111
27-02-2015, 09:19 PM
Looks like your a bit screwed if you were thinking of running in snr aircooled and proddys this year. ��

Could this change on the day depending if more snr proddy riders turn up or has that decision been made to run them in one race.

shaunb1
27-02-2015, 10:01 PM
we wanted to do both classes but because not enough have registered !!!!! only a few places left now they have mixed them together , you wont get in if you turn up on day .

HugheskiRacing
27-02-2015, 10:07 PM
I'm in hope the TV can follow 4 races in 1

Legs 111
27-02-2015, 10:47 PM
Well booked on aircooled it is.

Legs 111
05-03-2015, 08:54 PM
How much is practice on Saturday, does anyone know?

The Websters
05-03-2015, 10:02 PM
20 steve see you there:twitchy:

baddad
06-03-2015, 07:49 AM
It's 30 for reg riders and 35 for non reg riders. 20 to whilton and the other 10 to 15 to help cover insurance, medic and marshals

Legs 111
06-03-2015, 09:12 AM
Thanks for the info